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See the original image at valleywag.com —

NBC dumps Microsoft Silverlight after Olympics

valleywag.com — NBC streamed all its NBCOlympics.com videos using Microsoft's Silverlight backend tech, but the network dumped Microsoft before last night's NFL kickoff — streamed live over NBCSports.com and NFL.com — opting to use Adobe Flash instead.

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  • SkeletalBias, on 09/05/2008, -36/+142I don't blame them.
    • DarkShroud, on 09/06/2008, -5/+22I'm going to assume that's sarcasm and you actually read the article.

      "NBC's move didn't pay off last night. The feed was unwatchable over a broadband connection, serving up freeze fames, blurry action and skipping back and forth as the it tried to buffer."
      • ButtSmudge, on 09/06/2008, -4/+7I wish they would of gone back to Silverlight, the NFL on NBC feed was atrocious, it felt like I was listening to to Michaels and Madden doing radio broadcast, the video was unwatchable.

      • WiseWeasel, on 09/06/2008, -8/+16Maybe that's because a lot of people actually tried to watch this, in sharp contrast with their Olympics coverage...
      • DaffyDuck, on 09/06/2008, -1/+5I'm with Wiseweasel on this. Most people already have the flash plugin. I'm guessing a lot of people see the request to install silverlight and just give up. I could be wrong though.
      • DarkShroud, on 09/07/2008, -3/+3@Weasel, 300,000 people watch the Olympics at NBC. The number of people who watched Football was far less. Yes a lot of people had to install the silverlight plug-in, but now they'll get it's updates through Windows Update so they will always be up to date. The only way flash will get better is if Adobe has this competition. I love the quality of silverlight.
    • lovek, on 09/06/2008, -3/+4Wouldn't have been sarcasm if I'd said it.

      Tried to watch several otherwise-un-televised Olympic events over the net using Silverlight (for example, my wife REALLY wanted to see the equestrian events).

      The experience was disappointing to say the least.
      • lovek, on 09/06/2008, -0/+3Sorry I shared my experience.
      • DarkShroud, on 09/07/2008, -1/+2Maybe you should have said why you were disappointed. There is no way in hell flash could have looked that good in the allowed time frame.
    • svivian, on 09/06/2008, -1/+4They should use the HTML video element instead, thereby locking out those M$ suckas.
    • kushalone, on 09/11/2008, -0/+0 tags are not yet supported in IE, I think. I am a Firefox fan but it has only 20% of market share atm.
  • dballagh, on 09/05/2008, -25/+120Yey, now I can watch videos from my new NetBook PC running linux. :)
    • dsmx, on 09/06/2008, -4/+24NO you can't, no-one can didn't you read the article?
    • Katana314, on 09/06/2008, -11/+6Um...Silverlight ran on Linux too...
      • ethana2, on 09/06/2008, -2/+7Yeah but they don't tell you that, because Microsoft Silverlight does not. We just have our own, somewhat official yet several months behind implementation of it.
      • martalli, on 09/06/2008, -1/+11Moonlight...didn't work with the NBC Olympics feed.
      • posure, on 09/06/2008, -0/+5Moonlight is financially supported by Microsoft, but yeah, its quite a bit behind.
  • clsslc, on 09/05/2008, -14/+22Hah. Take that, scoundrel!
    • pmclinn, on 09/06/2008, -8/+9Read the entire article:
      "NBC's move didn't pay off last night. The feed was unwatchable over a broadband connection, serving up freeze fames, blurry action and skipping back and forth as the it tried to buffer."
  • CryRightardCry, on 09/05/2008, -48/+147Yeah, thanks NBC.
    So you ***** up the Olympics for everyone who isn't running windows, and THEN you go back to a solution that works for everyone.
    ***** you, NBC.
    • SetOverSet, on 09/06/2008, -31/+54You're an idiot. They didn't F up the Olympics for people not running Windows. It worked just fine on Mac.
      • nycmac247, on 09/06/2008, -1/+1just newer
      • mithrasinvictus, on 09/06/2008, -10/+18For now.
        Why do you think microsoft developed silverlight? Just to piss off adobe or as future leverage for their OS? As soon as they think the time is right their next windows version will have some patented copyrighted mechanism that silverlight will just happen to depend on.
      • mikelieman, on 09/06/2008, -14/+6Not everyone uses either Windows or Mac.

        The top 1% of computer users use neither.
      • br0ck, on 09/06/2008, -4/+5It doesn't work on Win2k either, or am I the only person left using it?
      • DarkShroud, on 09/06/2008, -6/+1@br0ck, two words: Tiny XP.
      • ricksite, on 09/06/2008, -3/+12Silverlight 2 isn't supported on PowerPC Macs. There is a very large installed base of PPC Macs.
      • theblacknight, on 09/06/2008, -3/+5It worked on most Mac less than 3 years old. There are people who have a Mac still under warranty that it didn't work on. I have three computers in my house, and did it work on any of them? No.

        Do they expect me to go out and buy a new computer to watch the Olympics live? Anyway, I'm boycotting NBC until the next Olympics where I hope they will actually broadcast events live to the whole country, otherwise back to boycotting NBC.
      • Trevino, on 09/07/2008, -0/+1Maybe so but what about linux where it didn't work at all.
    • AntBing, on 09/06/2008, -18/+10Boo ***** hoo. CryBabyCry
    • benologist, on 09/06/2008, -8/+38"Because, as SAI notes, while 40 million US visitors to NBCOlympics.com didn't have Silverlight installed, Adobe Flash is already installed on some 98 percent of Internet-connected computers. NBC's move didn't pay off last night. The feed was unwatchable over a broadband connection, serving up freeze fames, blurry action and skipping back and forth as the it tried to buffer."

      I've worked with Flash and C# for years and recently started messing around with Silverlight. I suspect Silverlight outperforms Flash by quite a bit, the problem is there's very few examples in the wild that demonstrate what it's capable of.
      • AchaIemoipas, on 09/06/2008, -13/+26Agreed. This is a step back.

        Flash doesn't compare to Silverlight.

        Most of the problem people had was that they didn't want to download it, but they downloaded Flash.

        And I don't see how microsoft should be responsible for Linux support.

        And in any case, Silverlight for Linux:
        http://www.mono-project.com/Moonlight
      • zydeco, on 09/06/2008, -5/+8I tried to use an "old" 900 MHz ThinkPad to watch the Olympic broadcast. Mind you, this is a laptop that can run the Hulu player (another NBC product) just fine. Silverlight was unwatchable.
      • AchaIemoipas, on 09/06/2008, -10/+17Yeah it's weird, I tried to run Vista 64 on my commodore 64 and I didn't even have enough space on my hdd.

        I mean, why call it Vista 64 if it can't even run on a commodore 64?
      • benologist, on 09/06/2008, -3/+14To get a general idea on how much it outperforms Flash there's this test:
        http://bubblemark.com/silverlight2.html - I get 860 frames per second
        http://bubblemark.com/flex.htm - I get 160 frames per second
        http://bubblemark.com/flex_bmp.htm - I get 100 frames per second

        Then there's my own experimenting. I'm playing around on a diablo-style isometric game engine cause that'd just kick ass in a browser. Early on I ported what I'd done in Silverlight to AS3. Loading just under 2mb of XML holding a very simple dataset for a map took an unnoticable amount of time in Silverlight and completely brought Flash to it's knees for 3 or 4 minutes.

        A while back I was working with Flash and a 26mb dataset, it required an insane amount of massaging to process. I had to literally setTimeout my way through each row of data to get it to work.
      • whahaa, on 09/06/2008, -2/+5mlb.tv switched to silverlight this season. pretty good example of a successful implementation.
      • mikelieman, on 09/06/2008, -7/+4Did you ever think, that's because Microsoft is continuing to abuse non-microsoft developers by keeping APIs secret?

        One would have thought the anti-trust suits would have resolved this, but I guess the lesson is -- Never Trust a Rat.
      • AchaIemoipas, on 09/06/2008, -11/+5Blar blar blar.

        You're free to come up with your own alternatives.

        Microsoft doesn't owe anyone anything and you have absolutely no right on their intellectual property anymore than they do on yours.

        The anti-trust lawsuits were a mockery of the judicial system and the free market.
      • BossKey, on 09/06/2008, -0/+4I think what happened is that while 98% of computers MAY have Flash installed - and that's according to Adobe, not some independent body - it doesn't mean they have the RIGHT version of Flash installed.

        I've started using Flash-based slide shows and Flash-based video provided by a few sites, and there are cases where bugs and bad playback happen because the viewer's Flash version is not recent enough. But you sometimes don't get warned that your Flash needs to be upgraded, so all you get is a buggy experience. So it may not be enough simply to "have Flash installed."

        I'm no fan of Silverlight, by the way.
      • Guspaz, on 09/06/2008, -4/+2This might be a good time to remind people what the "MS" in "MSNBC" stands for: Microsoft. Admittedly, they no longer own 50% of that venture, only 18%.

        When Silverlight came out, I tried to use it. On Windows. I tried to install it in Firefox 3. It installed correctly, and a small percentage of sites worked; the rest claimed that I didn't have it installed, despite the fact that some sites worked.

        Until Microsoft can iron out such issues, it will be hard for it to become a major player.
      • zydeco, on 09/06/2008, -0/+1So what video codec is Silverlight using? Bubblemarks mean nothing to me. We're not drawing polygons here, we're rendering streaming video over a typical ADSL line.
      • AchaIemoipas, on 09/06/2008, -1/+3Video:
        WMV1, WMV2, WMV3, WMVA, WMVC1.

        Audio:
        WMA 1, 2, and 3, and MP3.
    • uruururr, on 09/06/2008, -2/+172008 olympics powered by microsoft silverlight. NBC+Microsoft.

      big business runs on incentives and advertising... welcome to the world.
    • B1663r, on 09/06/2008, -10/+1Ive only dug you up because we have been tag teaming the last few days and its been fun.

      But with regards to Olymics my experience was WorksForMe!(tm)
    • bryan879, on 09/06/2008, -15/+8Silverlight is a multi platform tech just like flash. Learn about something before you bitch.
      • mikelieman, on 09/06/2008, -7/+9Doesn't work on my platform. Firefox works fine. Flash works fine. Silverlight IS NOT AVAILABLE.

      • DarkShroud, on 09/06/2008, -6/+7And what plateform would that be? If it's linux then you want moonlight. If you're still having problems then run a VM of TinyXP. Linux is 1% of the market if you want to use it you have to deal with the consequences.
      • BossKey, on 09/06/2008, -2/+2Great. I'd like to author Silverlight on a couple of my platforms. What do I use?
      • DarkShroud, on 09/07/2008, -1/+1If you're serious I believe you use MS Expression, it comes as part of Office Ultimate.
    • ranalex, on 09/07/2008, -0/+0Everyone except those of us that would love to be able to do this from our iPhone.
  • slugicide, on 09/05/2008, -15/+53This Linux user emailed a complaint during the Olympics. I wonder how much feedback influenced this decision?
    • SetOverSet, on 09/06/2008, -4/+47Probably ZERO. It's about money.
      • dialectical, on 09/06/2008, -2/+8So is feedback...The Olympics were a stunning success for NBC and any small criticism they got was most likely amplified at the department level. Especially if they were looking at the web stats.
      • arjie, on 09/06/2008, -3/+14Yes, but users not watching are users lost.
      • duckyinc, on 09/06/2008, -16/+9Obviously loosing about 300 viewers which are watching that for FREE is a loss.
      • B1663r, on 09/06/2008, -11/+7There are 300 people who both like linux AND sports??? Sorry I just have a hard time accepting that.
    • djgreedo, on 09/06/2008, -24/+5Dear NBC,

      While 99.999% of your target audience can run Silverlight, I, and a handful of other Linux tards, can't. Please switch back to Adobe Flash, because me and my Linux tard friends prefer older, less usable technology over all this great, capable, easy-to-use newfangled stuff.

      Kind regards,
      slugicide, luddite extraordinairre.

      Is that about right?
      • DarkShroud, on 09/06/2008, -11/+2Moonlight or TinyXP pick one and quit complaining. You want to be pretend to be special and run Linux then you can deal with the consequences. Moonlight is open source why isn't it 5 times better than the proprietary Windows/Mac version yet?
      • jellygraph, on 09/06/2008, -1/+9Dear NBC,

        I'm an idiot and I have no friends because I keep calling everyone a tard. The only thing that helps me through the day is a Windows Vista Ultimate (ultimate!) box and a tube sock. Also, I have to admit, despite the fact that _everyone_ else on the internet uses Flash to stream video, I'm quite impressed with the fact that you had the guts to do something so stupid. I do things like that all the time!

        Kind regards,
        djgreedo

        Is that about right?
    • justncase80, on 09/06/2008, -6/+8Did you read the article? It says that the switch was a bad idea because it was unwatchable in flash.
      • theblacknight, on 09/06/2008, -3/+4It said it was unwatchable in flash over slow connections. At least now the people who expect to be able to watch online video can watch it.
    • LilRabbitFooFoo, on 09/06/2008, -6/+4No one cares about 8 linux users who might have watched it. They are a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the general population Windows users.

      It's business, pure and simple.

      PS Microsoft keeps their tech updated on Mac just to avoid antitrust/monopoly complications.
      • Gavagai80, on 09/06/2008, -1/+21% linux users + 1% Opera users (no silverlight for that on Windows) + all the people who don't want to install yet another plugin = money you're throwing away.

        An intelligent business wants to make as much money as it can -- not throw away a few percent because, hey, we're rich enough we don't need to maximize our profits.
    • ilgaz, on 09/07/2008, -1/+1As opportunist Linux users and some percentage of PPC/Mac owners booted to Windows and watched it via that spyware flash wannabe, your protest didn't work.
      If WINE and Dual-Booting didn't exist, Linux and even OS X would be at a different place now.

  • limeyTart, on 09/06/2008, -9/+28I have been working on a sizable project that is an implementation of a HD Broadband player using Silverlight, I think probably the bigger problem is that its still under heavy development. We have been working with Microsoft Silverlight developers to figure certain things out that it currently doesn't support - they have been working hard getting things resolved and Silverlight overall is a pretty impressive framework.

    I run Linux, so the Olympics player not working was annoying - but its Windows users that would make up 95%+ of the users for NBC - I would imagine its more to do with actual continued development efforts and the fact there are just more Flash developers available than SIlverlight developers.
    • mikelieman, on 09/06/2008, -3/+4Yeah, that and the chance that Microsoft is just NOT GOING TO FIX the issues NBC's testing uncovered, and they're abandoning the platform.
      • limeyTart, on 09/06/2008, -3/+4@mikelieman - not sure I agree with you on that, NBC deploying Silverlight has lot's of value with Microsoft because they need to show the web communities that Silverlight is a viable alternative to Flash / Flex / Air. I would imagine, just as the project I have been involved in is a high publicity project (the only reason we would be able to work with Mircosoft developers directly) that MS would do everything in their power to make sure issues are resolved. Silverlight also ties into the suite of dotNet and MS's server products - MS are anything but abandoning Silverlight for the time being.

        My development team mainly focuses on J2EE web apps - and are big fans of open source technologies. One thing to watch is the Mono Moonlight project - as it's bringing Silverlight to Linux - I would like to think MS was helping these guys also, we have used Mono in the past to deploy a dotNet app on JBoss. http://www.mono-project.com/Moonlight
      • mikelieman, on 09/07/2008, -0/+2Why bother duplicating the J2EE toolchain, in a proprietary environment?
  • SetOverSet, on 09/06/2008, -38/+142They didn't dump Silverlight. The deal was for the Olympics. I'm sure Adobe has a deal for them with the NFL. BTW, Adobe totally failed and with LESS traffic. And to top it off, did anyone catch the HD quality videos from the DNC? Yeah, let's see Flash do that. Silverlight FTW!
    • mmijatov, on 09/06/2008, -7/+12what makes flash incapable of delivering video of the same quality?
      • B1663r, on 09/06/2008, -5/+26Nothing. The various codecs are very similar in performance(on windows, on older non intel macs it is a differnt story).

        On the other hand, Silverlight video streams are scalable, while flash video streams are not.
      • MOJIRA, on 09/06/2008, -15/+16Do you people work for Microsoft or something?
      • mikelieman, on 09/06/2008, -2/+11Get back to me when I can install Silverlight on my computer.
      • allnone, on 09/06/2008, -4/+6"Do you people work for Microsoft or something?"

        I forgot that we all are suppose to hate M$, right?
    • mgromer, on 09/06/2008, -3/+5Yeah, the DNC streaming site was beautiful.
      • theblacknight, on 09/06/2008, -1/+1If you got past the message about needing Mac OS X 10.4+ and Firefox 2+ if you have a Mac...both of which I had and it didn't work.

        I guess the democrats are only interested in people who have enough money to buy a new Mac every 2.5 years or shell out a couple hundred bucks to have a copy of Windows just to watch the DNC.

        I'm not objecting to a Silverlight HD option. I just think they should have an option for everyone.
    • over9k, on 09/06/2008, -7/+28Don't let facts get in the way of MS bashing. ;)
    • Ironlink, on 09/06/2008, -0/+1Yeah, somehow I don't think the stream servers run either of flash and silverlight.
    • Fr33th0t, on 09/06/2008, -1/+1Certainly if they were smart enough to choose SilverLight, then they're smart enough to know how to put together a proper Flash streaming system... right?
  • Pusod, on 09/06/2008, -23/+16Good riddance! I hated that thing anyway! It used too much of my pc's resources and made it run slower than molasses!
    • gcnaddict, on 09/06/2008, -4/+10You're saying Silverlight used more resources than Flash on your computer?

      Seriously?

      (your best answer would be to say you were just kidding, because everyone who has worked with Silverlight knows how much more efficient and capable it is)
      • krekar, on 09/06/2008, -6/+1That's just silly. Flash 10 is faster, has more features and is far more mature than Silverlight.
        In what way is Silverlight more capable than Flash.
      • SecureXeC, on 09/06/2008, -0/+4Aside from "every way imaginable", none.
  • lopla, on 09/06/2008, -25/+17Silverlight another failed msft clone product. it's ok Seinfeld will fix this!
  • gozroth, on 09/06/2008, -0/+20It's nothing personal, they just agreed to see other people. See, NBC has this long history with flash and.... she just wants to see if there's anything still there. NBC hopes Silverlight the best of luck and hopes he doesn't take this too hard. Silverlight has a hard time with relationships.
  • wastern, on 09/06/2008, -25/+20I've yet to see Silverlight do anything Flash can't
    • B1663r, on 09/06/2008, -8/+28Scalable streams. Complete end to end platform. Hardware acclerated encoding. There are a bunch more things as well. Those are just off the top of my head.
      • KAMiKAZOW, on 09/06/2008, -4/+6Silverlight does ENcoding?
      • gcnaddict, on 09/06/2008, -0/+2No one has tried encoding, but decoding works through hardware acceleration just fine.

        I wouldn't be surprised if encoding was actually possible via Silverlight.
    • theblacknight, on 09/06/2008, -3/+5I've yet to see Silverlight do anything....and not for lack of trying.
  • BrokenCircle, on 09/06/2008, -11/+4Burn
  • nickpick, on 09/06/2008, -4/+17Watching video steams on either platform is awfully annoying. They´re both performance hags.
  • narupo, on 09/06/2008, -15/+23Well done,I uninstalled that ***** thing the moment olympics were over.
    • santasing, on 09/06/2008, -2/+28That's what you think...muhahahahah

      - Bill Gates
    • Sunuva, on 09/06/2008, -6/+6Then you missed out on the best online experience for the democratic convention.
      • WiseWeasel, on 09/06/2008, -2/+6Well, I wouldn't exactly say he 'missed out'...
      • 9bpm9, on 09/06/2008, -1/+6You wasted your time watching that *****?
    • allnone, on 09/06/2008, -2/+3You're that low on disk space?
    • antdude, on 09/06/2008, -0/+4I just uninstalled mine too.
  • Arowin, on 09/06/2008, -4/+58I like it how most of these comments seem to have not even read the article...
    "NBC's move didn't pay off last night. The feed was unwatchable over a broadband connection, serving up freeze fames, blurry action and skipping back and forth as the it tried to buffer."
    • B1663r, on 09/06/2008, -5/+21Well in defense of the Microsoft haters, they are gonna lie about it even if they read the article.
    • rmxz, on 09/06/2008, -11/+1Perhaps it was easier to serve the 50 million users that have Silverlight installed compared to the 300million users that have Flash installed? (rough guesses at the numbers - but Silverlight's only on one of the 5 computers here, for example).
      • ncnavguy, on 09/06/2008, -0/+11But 300 million people didn't watch the NFL game.
    • DaffyDuck, on 09/06/2008, -1/+2"I like it how most of these comments seem to have not even read the article..."

      We don't need to since this quote is repeated in the comments here a bazillion times.
  • diggafrica, on 09/06/2008, -18/+33Anti Microsoft Fanboys jumping on the wagon again.. The deal was to use Microsoft's Silverlight Technology during the olympics only. That deal has now expired that is why they reverted to Adobe's flash. Silverlight is more scalable for high end content delivery than Flash btw. compare the specs.
    • Vadi0, on 09/06/2008, -12/+7So, wait, what. You have to have a deal with Microsoft to use Silverlight? Deal over, can't use such a "great" technology?
      • mithrasinvictus, on 09/06/2008, -0/+11I think this deal involved microsoft paying NBC to use silverlight. (to increase the install base)
    • mithrasinvictus, on 09/06/2008, -4/+8Flash is more capable of sustained multi platform development, compare the developers.
      • TWallaceWD, on 09/06/2008, -3/+10So we should all stick with Flash because more people use and develop it? Let's all stick with Windows too then, and dump this crazy Linux/Mac fad. Who cares what's better, let's stick with what's more popular. On the same note, screw Firefox and Google Chrome, IE rules!
      • mithrasinvictus, on 09/06/2008, -3/+2@wallace no, we should not blindly trust an os vendor with a near monopoly to develop cross platform solutions.
    • WiseWeasel, on 09/06/2008, -3/+4Hell, I'll do my part to hate on these "cross-platform" APIs from MS. I've learned long ago not to trust Microsoft with any web standards, as they'll inevitably leverage it to shaft any non-Windows users at some point. Say what you will about Adobe, but at least they don't have a vested interest in the computer platform market, and so they have a chance of remaining impartial. Personally, I'll support the dropping of both Flash and Silverlight in favor of HTML5 standards, but one thing's for sure, I won't support replacing one ubiquitous proprietary web plugin with another. I don't care if Silverlight makes me breakfast in the morning, I'm doing my part to keep it off the web.
    • ilgaz, on 09/07/2008, -1/+2I run PPC G5 and G4 machines, can you explain me how I would be able to watch Olympics?
      If you can't, stfu really.
      ps: I installed Silverlight 1.0 when it was available to my G5 mac.

  • lordving, on 09/06/2008, -15/+53Obvious fact most of these people forget...Silverlight worked great. I watched the olympics in high detail over a slow dsl broadband connection. You can't even begin to compare it to the low quality of Adobe
    • Farmer77, on 09/06/2008, -3/+16I watched the Olympic Events that weren't shown on TV using Silverlight without a hitch. And all the videos are still up on the NBC Olympic site right now. Seems this hate for Silverlight is about siding with brand loyalty more than anything else. And if that turns out to be the case, then that's pretty ***** lame.
      • WiseWeasel, on 09/06/2008, -5/+2People learned their lesson about trusting Microsoft with web standards, yeah, lame...
    • gquaglia, on 09/06/2008, -8/+6Who cares how great it looked if everyone couldn't use it.
      • DarkShroud, on 09/06/2008, -4/+2That's why they get for using Linux that only has 1% market share. MS has meet them half way with the open source moonlight project. For MS that's pretty damned big.
      • gcnaddict, on 09/06/2008, -4/+9Linux has moonlight. For crap's sake, shut the ***** up about linux already. No one gives a ***** about you guys because all you guys do is whine and bitch about closed source this and closed source that.

        God damn, man. The team building moonlight even has Microsoft's approval.
      • renegadeafk, on 09/06/2008, -3/+3like 99% of people can use silverlight. As mentioned above stfu.
  • Xizer, on 09/06/2008, -24/+67Fail.

    Silverlight > Flash Video in pretty much every way. Silverlight is just designed better.
    • KAMiKAZOW, on 09/06/2008, -4/+21Better or less bad? I've seen nothing, neither Flash nor Silverlight, that's better than a simple MPEG-4 streaming server that delivers video in various bandwidths to a browser plugin. It works on almost every platform, 32 or 64 bit, in almost every browser. Totem, MPlayer, VLC, QuickTime, etc. offer good browser plugins.
  • CarnivalOfDust, on 09/06/2008, -6/+100They should go to something stable like Realplayer. The advantage of Realplayer over Flash i
    [Buffering]
    s in it's ability to reliably str
    [Buffering]
    [Feed lost]
    • fluxion, on 09/06/2008, -0/+15in fairness, how many of those [Buffering] moments were when we were still on dial-up? real-time streaming video wasnt really a given back then
    • Randy08, on 09/06/2008, -0/+6I can't digg you up enough.

      I miss those days!
    • djgreedo, on 09/06/2008, -2/+15*****, I thought you were serious up until the [Buffering]...nice.
    • ilgaz, on 09/07/2008, -0/+1They could stream same or better quality on fullscreen over half of bandwidth and hardware required if they used Real architecture.
      In fact, they could stream to cell phones and smart phones having Realplayer too.
      Keep up the "buffering" jokes, they are really funny.

  • kelway, on 09/06/2008, -8/+22For a nice example of Silverlight: http://memorabilia.hardrock.com/ (not video)

    Just keep on zooming.......
    • B1663r, on 09/06/2008, -16/+5The problem with silverlight applications tends to be... It assumes computers and the internet are going to get faster and faster. When I look over the arc of the last 20 years, I just can't agree. Computers and the internet are as fast as they will ever get;)
    • gamemaker, on 09/06/2008, -0/+3Another great example: http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/feature/?fid=508

      Every game of the CFL (Canadian Football League) streamed, high quality, with one commercial per quarter. Best CFL coverage there has ever been (take that CBC, you government hacks!).
  • Idietired, on 09/06/2008, -18/+3One of the only drunken digg posts I've ever made was a big "***** Silverlight" post I made right before the Olympics a couple weeks ago. I believe I said something to the effect that "Silverlight, like so much of Microsoft's media delivery software, is half the program it should be." Then, some M$ loving ***** called me a troll and jumped down my throat for trashing Microsoft's "amazing tech" just because being pissed at Microsoft is "cool and edgy."

    So I'm sober now, and I hope the other digg users will forgive me for using all caps, but I feel that I can't stress enough the fact that, even though I was drunk, I ***** CALLED IT.
    • DarkShroud, on 09/06/2008, -2/+1You should really read the article. Flash failed at a 6th of the level (50,000) of the Olympics (300,000) viewers.
      • Idietired, on 09/06/2008, -1/+1I read the article. NBC dumped it like I knew they would.

        You Microsoft fanboys will buy into any damn thing they feed you so fast I wouldn't be surprised if you're all Republicans, too.

        Meanwhile, back in grown-up world, I use Windows and I love my Xbox. I even use a Microsoft Wireless mouse on my non-gaming PC. I don't hate everything about Microsoft, but their department that cooks up their media-delivery stuff is really hit and miss. I'm sorry you only see this from a net advantage standpoint, but I've worked in video media, and Silverlight was a bust as an A/V delivery system. I'm not surprised NBC dumped it ... because I said so three weeks ago.
  • CCmachined, on 09/06/2008, -12/+4Flash > Silverlight, but it's still pretty bad.
    seriously, somebody should market a youtube-like OGG Theora player for all OSes (not Flash), much better...
  • locojones, on 09/06/2008, -11/+25I watched an incredible amount of live Olympic broadcasts on NBC's Olympic page via Silverlight, and I had nothing but positive experiences with it. The video, even at its highest quality, was smooth and free of artifacts and buffering, even with my moderate speed DSL. Plus, the Olympic app allowed you to stream up to four Olympic events at once, which I did on a number of occasions, without a hiccup.

    So I honestly don't understand the problems experienced by those complaining about resources. Speaking from my own experience, after streaming hours on end, when I checked my hard drive at the end of any given night of coverage, the only thing Silverlight created was a miniscule 400-600meg temporary file. I was surprised it wasn't vastly larger, given the vast amount of video that I pushed every night.

    And this was on my paltry non-XP/Vista box, which, according to the NBC webpage, shouldn't even have been able to run it.

    So kudos to Microsoft and NBC for the implementation. Other people may have had problems, but I wasn't one of them.
  • hokeywhiteboy, on 09/06/2008, -6/+13They did not dump it at all... it is still in Beta, and the Olympic people BEGGED them for use of the technology so they rushed together a totally custom version of it just for the games. I can't speak for everyone who used it... but I can tell you that it was considered a MASSIVE success.

    As soon as it goes to production, they will be using it again.
  • jron, on 09/06/2008, -2/+15flash for linux blows. adobe literally has one guy hacking together the linux ports. with silverlight, the more than capable mono team can release an open source version that might actually work. ms has already given the mono team their blessing to continue developing moonlight. flash rapes my browser, doesn't full screen properly, and the audio support is terrible... i'm sick of restarting my browser. to further illustrate how incompetent the adobe team is, compare foxit to adobe's reader. They can't open source their code because they would be laughed at by the entire programming community. that said, much respect to the lone guy working through that mess of code; he has his work cut out for him.

    edit. loading up world of warcraft... oh, awesome! no sound because adobe flash doesn't close the audio stream... time to close the browser again!
    • vagarach, on 09/06/2008, -8/+3It is linux though, you should be used to oddities like that.
    • mithrasinvictus, on 09/06/2008, -2/+10It does, but not as much as it used to (no version 8 at all) and not as much as silverlight will suck on anything but windows in the future.
      Expect to see increased dependence on patented OS specific hardware tricks as silverlight becomes more mainstream.
    • dasunst3r, on 09/06/2008, -0/+1Maybe you haven't been introduced to the wonders of PulseAudio.
  • jazzbeaux, on 09/06/2008, -5/+19Interesting how so-called reporters use words that conotate an action that didn't really occur, just to promote their own agenda--like this valleywag creature has done.

    NBC did not "dump" Silverlight; the Silverlight content delivery contract was for the Olympics ONLY. The NFL is a totally different contract developed by a totally dfferent company. NBC has, in fact, plans to use Silverlight technology for future events and possible tv show delivery.

    Sorry to burst so many Adobe fanboy bubbles; Flash is the equivalent of REALPlayer...outdated and bloated ***** that is past it's use-by date.
    • ConceptJunkie, on 09/06/2008, -0/+1"Interesting how so-called reporters use words that conotate an action that didn't really occur, just to promote their own agenda"

      Interesting? It's Standard Operating Procedure.
  • sc0rpi0n, on 09/06/2008, -3/+7No, NBC doesn't dump Microsoft Silverlight. If Microsoft pays them use to Silverlight again, they will, just like in the Olympics. But that would not be money-wise for Microsoft. Now Microsoft is paying Nokia to get Silverlight installed in all Symbian-based mobile phones. That is the next logic thing.

    For linux users, you should have known that Silverlight for Linux is called Moonlight, and it is open-source! Go download it.
  • vagarach, on 09/06/2008, -3/+1Well, let's hope silverlight goes from success to success then!
  • sagat, on 09/06/2008, -5/+9What's with all this bitchin? I thought Silverlight was very impressive as a streaming tool especially for such a new framework. Personally I couldn't give a crap which platform my content is delivered in so long as the quality is good and it was for the olympics.
  • v4vishal, on 09/06/2008, -7/+1Chrome effect?
  • krc1, on 09/06/2008, -2/+8"...while 40 million US visitors to NBCOlympics.com didn't have Silverlight installed..."
    • Ravatar, on 09/06/2008, -2/+8"...while 40 million US visitors to NBCOlympics.com didn't have Silverlight installed YET"

      Almost all of those users left the site with Silverlight installed.
      • ilgaz, on 09/07/2008, -1/+1Forcing installs to users really worked in long term... Just see those youtube etc. sites all using windows media player ;)


  • alecsputnik, on 09/06/2008, -4/+5i never got a single streaming olympic video to work, so good! stop using that crap!
    • TWallaceWD, on 09/06/2008, -0/+3I never got a single one to NOT work. What did you do wrong? :)
      • alecsputnik, on 09/11/2008, -0/+1i have no idea!!! it was really frustrating.
  • theendlessnow, on 09/06/2008, -5/+7Brief glimpse of Bill Gates eating a Dorito.

    Jerry Seinfeld sees him from across the food court.

    Jerry: "You know... you're not supposed to bring in your own food."

    Bill: "Uh huh, I know."

    Jerry: "Ever thought about adding a feature to clean the orange dust off ones fingers before they use the computer... or wait.... WHILE they are using the computer?"

    Bill:

    Jerry: "Come on... someone in your psychic circle is working on it, aren't they?"



    Jerry: "Give me a hint. Pick your nose if it's true."

    Bill:

    At the end the Silverlight log pops up.

    There... that should fix things.
  • mrbutter, on 09/06/2008, -6/+13u guys are so dumb.

    Read the article.
  • flacmonkey, on 09/06/2008, -6/+1I hate to give Micro$oft credit, but Silverlight is far superior to flash. The only problem with the Olympics was, NBC's page would not let you view the video if you used linux, even though Silverlight is supported on linux
    • srg13, on 09/06/2008, -1/+31) Silverlight is NOT supported on Linux. There is a community build equivalent, but
      2) Moonlight, being a version or two behind, was not able to play the Olympic video streams anyway - (at least not at the start - I read that one of the moonlight developers was working on it, but that was a few days in)
    • krekar, on 09/06/2008, -1/+0Moonlight does not support video, and will not for any foreseeable future.
  • THESUPERDEVIL, on 09/06/2008, -5/+0f*cking thing sucks


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j2YDq6FkVE
  • KAMiKAZOW, on 09/06/2008, -5/+1@Ravatar: You don't need Flash or Silverlight for interactive videos. AJAX can do the same.
    • akula89, on 09/06/2008, -0/+1what?
    • ethana2, on 09/06/2008, -0/+3Thank goodness for HTML 5!
      FF 3.1 has support for the video element :)
  • mlvassallo, on 09/06/2008, -0/+2Here is a kind of unrelated question- Why isn't the NFL streaming games with a subscription service much like the NBA and MLB does? Right now the only thing you can do if you don't have a friend with slingbox is get Direct TV- don't you think they are killing their potential consumer base?
    • FriedTurkey, on 09/06/2008, -0/+1I am with you on that. The NFL supposedly rebroadcasts the games during the week on the NFL network. I wouldn't know because I am not one of the 5 people who have that channel. The NFL network thing pisses me off so much. Listening to Bryant Gumbell makes me hate watching football.
      • mlvassallo, on 09/08/2008, -0/+1Yeah, Time Warner Cable (my provider) doesn't carry NFL Network either.
  • paulm, on 09/06/2008, -2/+1Move Networks is actually the streaming technology behind the HD video from the DNC live events (as well as ABC.com content). Hopefully NBC realizes that Move Networks is the only way to go for quality streaming.
  • Spoomeister, on 09/06/2008, -2/+9Buried as inaccurate.

    - The silverlight deal was only for the Olympics, there was no "dumping".
    - Silverlight worked for the Olympics, and has worked for things like convention coverage, much better than Adobe for the NFL.
  • krekar, on 09/06/2008, -11/+7Why wouldn’t they. Silverlight has no important advantages over Flash.

    Flash supports the open h.264 codec, Silverlight only supports the inferior WMV codec (http://compression.ru/video/codec_comparison/subje ...

    Silverlight only supports HTTP streaming. Flash RTMP streaming protocol has lower overhead, free server implementations and is easy scalable with edge/origin support.

    Flash has full Linux support and even a 64bit player on its way, Moonlight does not plan to implement multimedia, which basically means Silverlight will be useless on Linux. Microsoft also has a history of dropping Mac support after the first couple of versions.

    Flash is a complete mature multimedia framework with features and stability that rival even advanced professional video broadcast solutions and has consistent support on 98% of all browsers after 10 years on the market. Even Internet Explorer on its height did not achieve that kind of market share. Microsoft has never been very successful with long tail.
    • posure, on 09/06/2008, -0/+5Silverlight supports VC-1 which tends to be better than h.264 actually, but they are pretty similar in quality and I definitely wouldn't consider either codec as inferior. I would disagree that Flash is stable, it is poorly designed and a plague to the internet that kills even top of the line computers with its ridiculous CPU usage.
      • krekar, on 09/06/2008, -1/+0Don't blame the platform. I've had Flash apps running flawlessly for months at a time without restart. No platform is immune to bad code.
    • mrblue182, on 09/06/2008, -0/+5Full linux support? Flash on linux is *****.
      • sman1260, on 09/06/2008, -2/+0I have yet to experience enough issues with Flash on my OpenSuSe or MythTV boxes to make me say flash isn't 100% supported. It works to do what it needs to do yet does have some issues on AFTER the player which is easily fixed by closing the browser or killing the PID manually. Compared to Silverlight which "DOESNT" allow multimedia on linux Flash is completely and 100% supported.
  • DestroyFascism, on 09/06/2008, -5/+5Ogg uses half the bandwidth for the quality...
  • DJClo1988, on 09/06/2008, -6/+3i hated silverlight
  • lsmiranda, on 09/06/2008, -4/+1silverlight is the way to go.. im sure this isnt the last we will hear about this... someone just got a big slap on the right though at NBC...
  • WindsorBoy, on 09/06/2008, -0/+1I would be dollars to donuts that Microsoft paid NBC for the rights during the Olympics. Silverlight is still new and MS needs to seed the market in order to increase the number of users with players installed. I'm sure that from their point of view the money was well spent. Who knows if a similar arrangement exists with Adobe? I suspect that, if so, it would be a muh smaller deal because Adobe already has has its player installed in much more of the market.
  • Iggins, on 09/06/2008, -0/+1WTF is wrong with H.264? http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264
    • DarkShroud, on 09/07/2008, -0/+1Quality wise nothing, VC-1 is just easier to use in this sense.
    • ilgaz, on 09/07/2008, -0/+1It is supported on all operating systems down to Smart phones and it is a World standard. That is wrong with h264 and MS friends.

    • kaevans, on 09/10/2008, -0/+0Microsoft just announced that they will be supporting H.264 as well as AAC.

      http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?com ...

      Interesting asterisk to that announcement:

      "Adding support for the H.264 video compression formats based on the increasingly popular MPEG-4 standard won't necessarily make Silverlight-viewed video look better. Nor will supporting the Advanced Audio Coding (AAC) codec allow Silverlight to play music stored locally by iTunes, partly because of Apple Inc.'s restrictions, said Steven Sklepowich, group product manager for Silverlight Media."
  • sman1260, on 09/06/2008, -4/+3What everyone is missing is that FLASH was used for the majority of the world outside of the US
    http://www.alleyinsider.com/2008/8/adobe-silverlig ...
    the Flash Player loaded smoothly and efficiently for everyone who used it. Meaning against everyone's wishes.. Flash >= Silverlight if done PROPERLY which is a rarity to find with the new encoders coming out.
  • qazwix, on 09/06/2008, -1/+3Best digg headline ever!
  • Ossuary, on 09/06/2008, -1/+2A pox on Silverlight's house!
  • readme, on 09/06/2008, -4/+4Flash is light years ahead of Silverlight in both technology and install base.
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